The Lucie Beatrix Podcast
Lucie Beatrix interviews inspiring humans of all walks on life that share her love for running fast and far, creating interesting stuff, and changing the world for the better.
The Lucie Beatrix Podcast
Running Towards Recovery: Nolan John On Sobriety and Ultra Endurance
What if you could transform your life through the simple act of putting one foot in front of the other? On today's show I am joined by Nolan John, an ultra runner who swapped the Midwest lanes of Chicago for the sunlit trails of Austin, Texas. From traversing through the wild landscapes of The Speed Project (an ultra marathon relay race), Nolan shares his exhilarating journey of personal growth through ultra-endurance running. Together, we unpack the chaos and creativity that comes with unsanctioned racing, where every step is a chance to run towards better versions of ourselves.
My story runs parallel to Nolan’s, as I recount a personal path to finding sobriety through running. Nolan shares with me his own path to getting sober with a heartbreaking loss of friends and the dark days he had following a near death motorcycle accident.
Navigating sobriety's challenges in a world filled with temptations becomes a shared theme as we discuss the strength in replacing harmful habits with healthier ones. From facing societal pressures to embracing imperfections, we reflect on how running and sobriety intertwine, offering paths to self-discovery and growth. We also emphasize the courage it takes to redefine oneself and the ongoing commitment to a better, more authentic life. Join us on this journey as we uncover the transformative power of running.
This is the Lucy Beatrix podcast. Today we are joined by Nolan John, a Midwest-born, austin-based ultra runner and sober human who has appeared in several running publications. Nolan is very open about their recovery from addiction and how that relates to finding movement. We're going to get into all of that and explore our common denominators on the topic of running and recovery. So, without further introduction, welcome to the show, nolan.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1:So you grew up in Chicago? Yeah, midwesterner.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And now you live in Austin. What brought you to Texas?
Speaker 2:Kind of just wanted to get out of the city. I feel like you don't really grow up as a human if you just stay home your whole life. So I just wanted to get a little uncomfortable and put myself in a space that I knew nobody knew nothing about. And so here I am. How old were you when you moved here, a space that I knew, nobody knew nothing about, and so here I am. How old were you when you moved here? 24. I mean, this was in April, so I just moved here.
Speaker 1:Okay, so recently. So you, kind of like, left your hometown to start over fresh, and a few months ago you ran the Speed Project in France. Yeah, from to Chamonix. From where, what was it? No, so it France to Chamonix.
Speaker 2:From where? No, so it was from Chamonix to Marseille.
Speaker 1:From Chamonix to Marseille, which is an ultra endurance relay race. That happens Usually. The Speed Project that a lot of people know is the Las Vegas or Los Angeles-Las Vegas race, which you also did. Yeah, but what was the France Speed project like?
Speaker 2:insane. It was like yeah, it was.
Speaker 1:Chamonix is the most like beautiful spot in this that I've been to. Like the world, like it's just insane. Had you been to Europe before? So this was your first time going to Europe was to run this ultra, pretty, pretty spoiled.
Speaker 2:Now I don't think anywhere else in europe is going to beat chamonix.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I feel like that kind of experience, of experience or going to a new place by foot, like running a distance really, uh, puts a different perspective on a new location yeah and um, I felt that way when I did los angeles to vegas a couple years ago. Uh, with the satisfied team where I ran from did the relay from la to vegas and uh, yeah, I just feel like you see so much that you don't see when you're just in a car whizzing past all these like little uh gas stations and stuff yeah so how did you prepare for uh, for that speed product in france?
Speaker 2:honestly it was. I didn't do too much prep. I mean I think I would. So my running journey kind of just started. My ultra running journey started in January of this year, um, which was like my first 50k um in, I think, little Rock, a little bit outside Little Rock, arkansas, um. And so from there on I've just been continuing running. There wasn't any specific like training plan for it. I've just been running a lot. I don't really have a training plan.
Speaker 2:I love that I just run. I think I could have done a little bit more like speed work, because we did half mile repeats the entire way.
Speaker 2:So the team is five people or there was about seven of us, um, in our team. We kind of split it up a little bit differently. We had, like technically, a freestyle team, not an og team, so we had a little bit more people, but like our van would run and then our second van would run, so we would have a little bit of a chance to break downtime between the relay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so um, but the entire time we were running like half mile repeats, which was like for, I think, 30, 31 hours, um, and so that was I didn't train. Yeah, I didn't train for that, I think. Uh, I was definitely holding them down a little bit, but other than that, it was that's awesome yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that the speed project they break it up. Every team does it their own way. There's no rules, it's an unsanctioned wild relay and I love how the there's different training methods or different racing methods of just just going and doing it in different ways. I did one where, um, during the pandemic, there was a DIY speed project where my team decided you could do it anywhere, because it was like you couldn't do the original speed project because it was shut down from the pandemic. So I did all of my legs on a track and so I did every fifth hour I did an hour on the track and so that was like a lot longer of running at once than breaking up into half miles, but it wasn't as fast or efficient because you can't really get your legs cooking like quickly. How fast were you guys going for this half mile?
Speaker 2:I think we were like averaging around like 640, 650s, but like yeah.
Speaker 1:For 31 hours. It's crazy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was a lot.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. Do you know how many miles you ended up running during that race? Total?
Speaker 2:I think it got about like maybe 40 to 50. Yeah, um, it was kind of hard because, like I didn't want to break down every single half mile, yeah. So like eventually, I counted out like the Strava, yeah, but it was just too much yeah, I totally know, um, it's funny.
Speaker 1:So our one of our common denominators right off the bat was that someone on your team is the other half of the museum of distance running, which is the apparel company that I'm affiliated with, and Jared was telling me all about this and how wild it was, and I was watching all of his updates. But, yeah, it looked like a lot of fun it was but there's always chaos that comes with these kinds of races.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I definitely bonded with him over that because, uh, it just you know, there's a lot of moving parts, there's a lot of organization, there's a lot of disorganization. It's just like how it has to be if you're doing the speed project in any capacity. Um, how did you approach fueling for that?
Speaker 2:uh well, we I nobody knew fire, I nobody on my team knew French, so, like everything was my entire, like the only thing I ate was just like bread and coffee the entire, not really the entire. There was no theory. So I am not someone that you should ask about any sort of nutrition or anything like that, because we, just we ate what we could understand. And I think, like everything else, we got into a supermarket and it was just like, yeah, we didn't really eat, it was, yeah, it was. It was very disorganized, but I would do it again, just because it was just like. I mean, it's an experience. And I think, like you know, you take, take like Martins at the beginning and you're like, all right, I'm going to get on top of it, but then, like three hours in, you're just like you want food anything, literally.
Speaker 2:that's just the beauty. Of ultra is like you could eat whatever the hell you want you could eat whatever the hell you want and as long as you're running like whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that, I love that. Like kind of like the exact opposite of what somebody might have prescribed, of like, oh, take this gel and do this, just eat what you can find. You're in a different country Bread and coffee it is. But yeah, I love that. I think that's kind of amazing. I did it. When I did it, uh, from LA to Vegas, I had packed a bunch of sweet potatoes and I just was like eating sweet potatoes in the sprinter van and it was like that worked for me. So it's what I did. But, um, yeah, so how would you compare the french speed product to the vegas speed, like the original speed project?
Speaker 2:um, obviously, like just the mountains, all the just, france is just so much, I think, so much more pretty, but I would say they were both chaotic. Like they're both chaotic and beautiful in its own way, like I think the biggest difference would just be you know, we had I had a lot more room, we had a full RV with LA to LV, but we had, like just some tiny Hyundai that we were like all crammed in which sucked, but that's hard when your legs are hurting and then you have to get into a little seat.
Speaker 2:Everybody's cramping up. Like you know, you only really have like maybe six, seven minutes of rest really before your your next leg out. So everybody's cramping, everybody's like pulling things yeah. It's crying, saying all of each other yeah, I wouldn't really tell much of a of a difference. It was both just yeah wild hell for for 31 hours.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think you kind of your body. The thing in the speed project taught me was your body just adjusts and learns how to be extremely uncomfortable for a long period of time and then it teaches you, at least from my experience, like later in life when I had other things going on where I had to stay up all night for some job or something or travel really far for work, I was able to just go well, I'm not running all these miles and like it, like it reconditions you to think you can do things that are way harder because you did the speed project.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:So it like recalibrates what your pain, tolerance in life is right um, which I think is awesome, like you can reference it like well, I did that, you know, and you, in your case, you did speed project twice, so and it wasn't within one year, you did two speed projects yeah, so I yeah, I was with my chicago crew for la to lv, shout out, run too hard.
Speaker 2:And then we I was able to. Once I moved here. I moved here to Austin right after LA to LV, and then I met, just like some people here, and we were able to I was on Gordon.
Speaker 1:Yeah, gordon, yes, oh, cool. Yeah, that was a wild crew of people too, which I think is awesome. Yeah, yeah, gordon's another Museum of Distance Running common denominator between us. Yeah, gordon's another Museum of Distance Running common denominator between us. So I want to get into the main thing that I think you and I have in common, which is that we both have struggled with addiction and used running as, like this way to distance ourselves from who we were in our like not so great days. So if you don't mind opening up about what that looks like for you and how you found running and like how that kind of those two worlds collided, for you a series of craziness in my life.
Speaker 2:In 2020. I lost, um, three of my best friends, all to different things, one to gun violence. And then, right after I lost my best friend, gary, uh, I got into a motorcycle accident, broke my leg and lost a testicle, and so I was just like bedridden, just lost three friends, just super, super depressed, um, and I think that's when I was just like drinking heavy, taking anything I can get my hands on honestly, and, man, I was just like sick of it. I think I got to a very low point where I was just like this sucks. I started going to therapy a little bit. This sucks, um, I started going to therapy a little bit, um, but then, like, once, my father lost his, like, um, his insurance, I got, I kind of got, you know, cut off too, and so that's when I just started picking up running, cause I had always, like, enjoyed running, going on a run but, I, was never really considered.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't call myself a runner, I would just like run two miles as fast as I could, um, and be like, oh, that felt good, um, and so I just picked up running again and was just like, all right, let me, let me try this out. And, um, kind of surrounded myself, got into a run club in Chicago and that made it just so much easier because I was like meeting people and it was like a solid community. It was a solid run club and, uh, it kind of just slowly started getting the ball rolling and I just kind of changed addictions a little bit. Um, but I was still during that time I was, you know, still drinking, still doing a lot of coke and just anything I could again get my hands on. And then it wasn't until maybe a month before my first marathon, I was like, all right, let me just try to go sober, just to kind of prep for this. And I did. I was sober for the whole month of October and I think it was October 2023 before Chicago Marathon.
Speaker 1:And Chicago was your first marathon. Yeah, so what? You signed up for that race. How far before the actual event to begin to prepare?
Speaker 2:I signed up for it right after, I think, the half marathon, so I ran the half marathon. I ran like Shamrock Shuffle half marathon and just started like going up in distance yeah, um, okay, I'm ready for a marathon. Yeah, I go for it I was like, let me just train for it. Like I think that's the best way to do is just put something on your list and just train for it um.
Speaker 2:And so a month prior I was just sober and finished the race. But before I finished the race, I booked this trip to go to dominican republic and was like already planning on like going to drink and like having a good time, like I worked my ass off for this, like marathon. I like I deserve this trip, a reward. Yes, and so I finished the marathon. It was great, I loved it. And then all of a sudden, I go to the Dominican Republic and I'm at an all-inclusive resort. Everybody's drinking like terrible liquor. It's just like a whole different environment. But because I trained my brain that whole month prior and I was just like eating better, I was just choosing a healthier lifestyle, I went to this resort and I was just like ew.
Speaker 1:Yeah, repulsed by it. Yeah, isn't that amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it just like, was just so disgusted I couldn't have, I couldn't enjoy anything Like. It was like terrible. And so I was like drinking a little bit there and I was just like man, I don't like this, I don't like this, I don't like uh once I got back to Chicago, I was like I think I had like two more weekends where I was just drinking. I was like well, why am I doing this?
Speaker 2:Why am I doing this? It just didn't align, Um, and I think what was the very like the time I went sober, I had done some Coke and just the hangover was awful, and I think that was the the thing that kickstarted my sobriety, where I was like all right, I'm done.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm done. So um, what when? How old were you when you started using substances and got into that stuff? When was the first time you picked up or your first drink 13. 13? Yeah, in Chicago.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Was it your friends, or how did you find or get into that stuff?
Speaker 2:My friend's stepfather had a bunch of oxys and hydros and Zans and I'm pretty sure I don't know what he was doing with them, but we, we found them and we just we weren't even drinking at that time but we were like let's do Xanax because at that time it was so influenced with, like music yeah, it's all over music. So that's how you're like raised in in that, like SoundCloud Zan era little Zan, the rapper it was like that type of like little peep influence, and so that's all they would rap about.
Speaker 2:And so we're like all right, let's do it. And so me, my friend, I was a bad influence and I influenced him to do it with me, and so from there I kind of just started to get.
Speaker 2:I actually just went super hard, instead of starting with alcohol and weed you went straight to the heart straight to the pills and like that was something I was able to somewhat get out of my system by like sophomore year, junior year, high school, um, and then I started picking up just like alcohol and I think, um with alcohol. A couple years, alcohol. Then came the coke yeah, wow.
Speaker 1:So, um, something that I always wonder about nowadays because, like I'm older than you I think by what's your 25 or 24 I'm 35, so I'm a different generation and I hear the stuff about pills and stuff and that wasn't really I'm sure it existed, but like I'm, I'm old school, like we, just I just drank and you know there was like people had weed around. But nowadays there's just so much availability or accessibility to, to prescription pills and stuff that are so addictive and so strong. But the thing that really makes me wonder is the with coke and cocaine and street street drugs aren't. Aren't you afraid when you're using, uh, that you could get something with like fentanyl in it or like something that could just kill you immediately, because that that wasn't really as much of a thing like in my generation, like people would maybe do cocaine at a party or something, and it wasn't like you could possibly die and it's actually like a pretty high likelihood that this is cut with something. So how were you not afraid of that kind of stuff?
Speaker 2:I didn't care, like there was, I was going through a lot of different just like seasonal depression or just depression where I was just like whatever. But I think, like I was raised in church, I believe in God and I think like a lot of it came from just like you know, like I know, I'm going through a hard time right now, but I don't know, I don't know what I was really thinking. I I wasn't thinking, that's the thing I really wasn't thinking and I think I was just like being foolish and very reckless on purpose because I was dealing with my own things, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I don't know, I don't, I really don't, it wasn't like there wasn't a fear of, like something going wrong.
Speaker 1:It was just you're just kind of caught up in the moment and using what you can find and stuff, and it sounds like if you have peers that are also kind of doing it, it just becomes normalized and maybe people aren't as afraid. But you mentioned that you've lost some friends and that was that was been pretty recently, right, like the past year and a half or two years.
Speaker 2:Back in 2020.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that pandemic, the start of the pandemic, and so do you think that that started to be? That was kind of the catalyst to seeing, like the dangers of that kind of world of like, oh, you know, the substances can kill, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, they didn't they, none of them. Well, one of them did die from an overdose, which was something that I was like all right, that that became kind of a thing in my life where I was like, okay, now I have to, you know think about that. But it wasn't really like the whole substance abuse stuff. It was more just like I can't live. It just doesn't align with this healthy lifestyle. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I find, like when people are making the shift, uh, getting sober or maybe even just like the sober curious people not not a hundred percent sober, but it's like the when you start filling your life with the good stuff, like relationships with people who aren't making their life around substance and going on runs early in the morning, and just like having every step of the day like okay, I ran this morning, so I'm going to eat something healthy because I want to feel good on my run tomorrow Like your life just starts to kind of fall into a more healthy pattern and like the next decision becomes more like, you know, matching the previous decision, and so I think that that's kind of a cool thing that people can learn from is like, oh, like it's not all at once, like sometimes it's just like the taking the first right action and then other actions kind of follow suit. So did, did you have a specific sobriety date that you're like you got sober?
Speaker 2:Okay, like this is my date that I'm like I stopped using on this day, or did it just kind of happen and you you don't even remember which day it was yeah, I think it was like 10, 29, uh-huh 23 oh, cool wow so like I had to shop this morning because I knew that was probably my question, but I was like other than that, like I just my sobriety date is kind of just like so on the phone yes not even, not even like. So it was the fall of last year. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I saw you had a birthday yesterday, right. Okay, I thought that it was your sober birthday. I really because I'm just in that mindset because I see cake and stuff and I'm like, oh, a sober birthday, but it's your actual birthday, yeah. So happy birthday, thank you.
Speaker 1:Young person in recovery, you get to look at your future differently of wow, I figured this one thing out now, and now it's like I think that's a huge, huge accomplishment, because so many people spend decades banging their head against the wall wondering why things aren't working out for them. But it's because they never hit that low enough low to then have a catalyst for change. Hit that low, enough low to then have a catalyst for change. And I relate to that where I got sober when I was 30 the first time. And I'm so glad that now, when I get closer and closer to 40, I'm like, okay, I figured that one thing out. That's making me a better person and growing older without that extra nonsense that's taking away from my life, right, and allowing me to see the positive behaviors to create like the life that I want. So, yeah, I think it's amazing when people who come into the you know that realization young.
Speaker 1:But it also means that you've seen a lot and, like you know that you had to get to that point. But if you don't mind talking about your accident, that uh, so what? What happened?
Speaker 2:um, I was just riding leaving work and, uh, some guy did a u-turn in front of me. And you're on a motorcycle, yeah, um, and I he did it like he did like a three point u-turn where he blocked both lanes, kind of very slow u-turn and like I didn't have enough time to like go around him.
Speaker 2:So I was just like all right, I'm just gonna hit him. So I hit the back of his car. I went like flying 10 feet and then, on impact I guess I think, or maybe I don't know I kind of went out for a second um, but then I stood up because I saw that the guy was trying to drive away and I was was like you're not driving away.
Speaker 1:Wow, he's going to try to leave.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he was trying to leave the scene. And then I like went to stand up and then that's when I realized my whole leg was snapped in half and so I had like bone going through my jeans. It was like a full compound fracture. And then I fell back down and you, you know, my adrenaline was just going crazy.
Speaker 2:Um, thankfully there was like a medic off duty medic that was just like driving by and like, honestly, like called the police, called the ambulance and kind of saved my day wow, you could have died if somebody hadn't been there right away.
Speaker 1:I wasn't, I wasn't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was bleeding a ton and I had, I didn't. I wasn't wearing a helmet, I wasn't wearing, literally, I wasn't just like in a tank top.
Speaker 2:Um, I had no scars, no, nothing over my body, like over my wow any of anything like I really felt protected that night and um, it wasn't until like maybe three or four days later that I started feeling this like pain in my testicle. Once, like all the drugs from the surgery kind of wore off, um, and I was like, yeah, I feel like this super sharp pain. So we did an ultrasound and then they showed me the ultrasound and then I like shattered my testicle, um, so you didn't even know right away.
Speaker 2:Oh wow, so I was just like the adrenaline, and then as soon as I got to the hospital, they put me on a ton of uh drugs.
Speaker 1:So you couldn't feel if something I couldn't feel anything until like after my leg surgery.
Speaker 2:And so they put a metal rod in from the top of my knee all the way down to my right ankle, um, and so that's holding my uh, my bones together so you're doing all of this ultra uh endurance on top of a metal rod in your leg.
Speaker 1:Wait so, the accident was a little over a year ago.
Speaker 2:No, this was 2020 as well.
Speaker 1:Okay, so four years ago, yeah, wow. So you've had a huge recovery from that to be able to go from that to then running these ultra events.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, the doctor told me I wouldn't be able to run.
Speaker 1:Don't do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's like I mean the doctor told me I wouldn't be able to do it. Yeah, that's like I mean, I don't know, they never know. Yeah, I feel that I had surgery over the summer and they said no exercise, uh, for a few weeks. And everyone was like prepare yourself, like you can't. And then I, that day, I was like if there's a will, there's a way. Don't do that. If you're somebody who's like your doctor, so you don't exercise. But I, yeah, I think if you mentally like want something, you can, you can push it. But, um, so, uh, wow, so that's a, that's a crazy accident. Um, do you think that? So you weren't really a runner, runner the way you are now.
Speaker 2:Yet I was still like drinking, using yeah, yeah, yeah, wow.
Speaker 1:So how long did it take after that accident? You know you're on all these medications and stuff Were you still kind of you're in the thick of like the cycle of like using stuff like after for a few years?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was. I was just sitting there in my house. I had to get myself like I couldn't move.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I was just drinking a ton and just yeah, yeah, I was getting paid from my job because of, like their, I still had some sort of insurance through them and I was just like not doing anything, just stagnation.
Speaker 1:I feel like sitting still and not having anything that you can physically do is like a breeding ground for addiction.
Speaker 1:Yeah and um, that reminds me of when I so I was running before I got sober and I got injured and I had to be sedentary for a long period of time.
Speaker 1:I had like a terrible shin stress fracture and I couldn't move and so I had still been drinking a lot while I was running, and that downtime was when I bottomed like rock bottomed, because I was so sedentary I had nothing to do, so I would just focus my whole day on like getting drunk and so, like, it just feeds off of you have nothing else to think about. So it's like if that's your whole life, it can really get progressively worse very quickly. So, yeah, so how do you approach the people that you knew, that knew you when you were using a lot? How do you approach the social dynamics now as this other person Like, do people from your past look at you now and say, oh, like, wow, look at his Instagram, he's doing all these crazy races and like this is such a different person than who we knew when we were like using when we were younger?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think there's been. At first there was like oh, you're kind of too good for us now.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I always try to like, come off as like look, we're still like great friends, like there is never. I don't think I'm better than anybody.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then, like just because I'm on my journey, doesn't mean it should be.
Speaker 2:You should compare my journey to yours, and so I've always tried to make that, um, very, very known to my friends and they, they get it. They also, you know, they don't comprehend. They think me going on a three mile run is impressive, yeah. So like it's just like trying to, you know, bridge the gap a little bit with them and just be like, hey, like what I got going on over here, like I don't care if people drink or do stuff around me. I'm very strong in who I am and I know what I have to lose. So I don't, I don't care if I'm around it. Now, do I choose to be around it all the time? Like no, I'm in bed by 930. Like that's just kind of what my life is now and I'm cool with that. So there has been a little bit of a difference. But since I've left Chicago, like that's where all the party scene was for me, so here in Austin, like I haven't, even I haven't really no.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I relate to that and I also think sometimes with people, like, if you are just on your path doing your thing, people will recognize it and maybe in the beginning they're like, oh wait a minute, that's different from who I knew.
Speaker 1:But then over time I've noticed some of those people that I used to have fun with, like especially, I used to work in a bar in New York and it was wild, it was fun. But those people I was like, oh, they're going to hate me now, like when I would post about my sobriety and stuff, and I'm like they're not going to think I'm cool anymore, like I'm not fun anymore. But then they are slowly but surely. There have been a few that have been like, hey, I'm kind of on the same path, like quietly, like they're like that, like that inspired that thing you said about whatever inspired me, and like it just like. Naturally, the ones who want to be perceptive to this, like you know, it's not for everybody, but for some people it's a cool example to be, and I've yeah, I've gotten like plenty of messages from like lifelong friends, strangers.
Speaker 1:Like.
Speaker 2:I think I on TikTok, I really kind of push the sobriety and running thing and I've I've gained some traction there and like I have like tons and tons and tons of messages of people just being like yo, like truly, you have like inspired me all this stuff and I always just like make sure that they they feel heard and just like dude, like you could do it too yeah and it's really.
Speaker 2:I'm not like some superhuman that like has this ability to do something like. I'm just another messed up human that is just trying to be a better person and like that's what I think Instagram and social media like. There's this gap yeah, it's like no, I'm literally I don't have you. Yeah, I don't have it figured out, yeah, so do you ever wonder about?
Speaker 1:um? I'm not projecting this onto you, but I like, for me, I relapse as part of my story and um, I, my identity was sober runner for several years. Like people google my name and see sober runner things and whatever and I had, I was very open about it. And then I was very open about well, then I relapsed, like very publicly and I it was really awkward and I felt very ashamed and you know it was some kind of it was I had lost my footing in the community. I felt very alone and I just was like, fuck this, I'm gonna go um pick up and um, I tried to emphasize to people like I'm not the person to look to for the advice, like I'm just as much of a broken human still and I'm making mistakes, and like this was just part of my journey and, if anything, I like it reemphasized how not wanting that life I like I like realize, okay, I don't want this life, it's not for me, but do you ever worry if, like your entire, like, if people are like seeing you as this, like sober person that, like you, can't ever reopen that door?
Speaker 1:I'm like I'm not saying like I hope you do, but like do you feel like what happens, like if you know, in the like in some situation in your life, if you're tempted, like, how do you grapple with that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the same way, like how, like I DNF my first 100 mile attempt and it's like you know, obviously that wasn't the outcome, that wasn't what I was working towards. That wasn't what I was working towards, but like, just like everything, like my running career journey has never been perfect and it won't ever be perfect.
Speaker 2:And like that could be very much the same with my sobriety journey. And like I'm very okay with making mistakes and messing up and then learning from those mistakes because that's all my life has been. Like I have messed up so much. I've been a terrible human being. Like I've been really bogus to a lot of people and like I think as I get older, it's like I just want to be a better person. So I'm like I'm okay making mistakes because I know the growth that comes from it is so much better. So like do I still think sometimes about having a beer?
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, all the time, yeah, all the time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100%. But like I'm not, I know I'm just very comfortable in my sobriety right now and I just like, oh, that's not, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:My one of my old sponsors from a long time ago. I don't I'm not part of the community anymore of 12 step, but I did have this woman in my life. That was very like meaningful to me and I still think about things she said and she always had me play the tape, Like so, even if I had like a little urge, she always wanted me to tell her when I felt that like little like yeah, I kind of want something, you know, and even if I'm not going to act on it, just saying it out loud to somebody else, I would tell her and then she would say the tape and like what happens next? So you have the drink, maybe you feel a little bit better, you know. And then the next steps that follow.
Speaker 1:It's for me right now, it's then I've opened a door to that suddenly being okay. And then, like what does that look like a few weeks from now, when I've been doing it every day or every week? And suddenly I'm back to where I left off and it's like I've built so much to get to this point. Right now I'm not going to mess it up, but I am really curious to hear what your thoughts are on all of the legalization of like weed marijuana stuff and if that's part of your journey, I mean, um, it's everywhere. And like in my day it wasn't. And like some people are, I've I've I've listened to and respect people who are California sober, who, you know, have marijuana as part of their recovery, even though they don't drink. I'm not in that camp, but I'm curious what you think about that stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, it doesn't bother me. Like I'm, I don't really care what other people do. I think I joke around with my friends. I was like, if there's ever anything I would do again, it would probably be mushrooms.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because, like, I've had some great experiences.
Speaker 1:God, that's so funny. You say that because this mushroom account just followed me on Instagram and they do the microdose things and I was like like I need to talk to someone, get this off my chest, because I felt like that seems really fun. But like, yeah, I agree, like it's hard, it's like opens Pandora's box of like then what?
Speaker 2:but anyway, but also I know that like leads to a very slippery slope so.
Speaker 2:I'm like I don't spend as much time thinking about like this variety stuff. It's just something that I'm just like I know I am, but like even I'll have like an NA beer and like you know, if, if you want to consider that as like a drink, like okay, I mean, I you've made, I've made it very clear that like to me I know I'm still sober I'm choosing this zero, zero, zero point, whatever it is. Like I know I'm sober and so like I don't need to follow this like strict, so I really appreciate that.
Speaker 1:I think that's very important. Um in this community because of, like, being outside of the stricter sobriety groups, um, that shall not be named, but um, but I I know for myself I had a thing with kombucha where I love kombucha and I I stopped drinking it for years because I was so afraid that that zero, zero, zero, zero, one percent was gonna mess up my sobriety date count. And then I finally got to a point where I was like this is not for me. This is I'm not like advising other people, but this is not the same as drinking prosecco at 11 am, which is what I used to do, and so like it's the thing that I like, and so like I think it's important for people to just find the things that they know.
Speaker 1:This works for me. This is not a relapse. Like I'm not gonna, like you know, beat myself up. Maybe someday I won't have kombucha, but for right now it's working and it's like it's not a um, it's not reminding me of who I used to be and it's not gonna make it so that I wake up and have to, like, undo all this damage of the day before and, like you know, text people and say I'm so sorry, I screamed at you and you know, at the bar, but yeah, multiple people have told me like, oh, so you're not sober.
Speaker 2:I'm like what? Yeah like I'm choosing I'm choosing this over a beer, but also like I'm not doing it for anybody else exactly not. And like yeah it isn't to gain anything, it's really just because it doesn't fit my life anymore. So like it doesn't matter to me is still very non alcoholic, yeah, and I don't care if there's a. Whatever percentage is I?
Speaker 1:think that's. I think that's a really important thing for people to hear, Because there are a lot of people who are like every little thing, it's like there's too many rules, and then that just throws everything out the window and it's like just focus on progress, not perfection, like that's at least what I do. But yeah, because I had had another thing of like six months ago I ate a gummy thing before bed that was like CBD, and then I saw on the packaging it was like 0.0001% THC or whatever, and I was like am I not sober? And I'm like no, that wasn like, that wasn't an intentional thing, so doesn't count, but it's what we call free laps, because I was like I guess I free laps last night. I didn't even mean to, but anyway.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I think that's a very valuable perspective and in these sober communities now, I think people are becoming more like choosing their own narrative. With it, there's not as much of a rigid outline of how it has to look, uh, which I think is very important because it invites more people into the community. Um, so do you, do you feel like you certainly naturally just surround yourself with more people that are in that world now that you're running a lot and like, or do you still have to navigate, like those kinds of relationships because, like, the running community can't have a lot of?
Speaker 2:runners are the biggest yeah partiers I've ever been. I know like literally yeah, every single, like the whole tre thing, the brooks people are yeah they throw a banger, I guess every single year and, yeah, they are the biggest partiers. I've never been around so, like I've never been a big partier, I think I've always done my drugs solo, yeah, with maybe one other person, but like, yeah, I haven't like post marathon, post any sort of race. The parties are insane and I feel like yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:So wait, it doesn't. That stuff doesn't bother me, I think, like I still hang around. Um, some of some majority of my friends are sober and some of them aren't, but when they have a beer, like whatever yeah, I feel I feel that way too.
Speaker 1:I think, like when I first came into the running community, uh, a lot of the people my track team in brooklyn would go to the bars afterwards and get crazy and I would just kind of like show up and I realized, like that thing, that initial thing of like everyone's drinking and then I would just like have a seltzer and nobody cares, and then I got over it and it was, it was fine and fine and so it's more of your own thing in those environments versus what anyone else actually cares or thinks. Yeah, and if anyone ever does care or think what you're consuming, that's a representation of themselves. Yeah, I've noticed that when someone's like oh, you're not drinking and I was like you don't know me, yeah, I don't have to explain.
Speaker 2:Also, don't like put my sobriety on other people like yeah, oh, yeah, it's my own thing. It's like I don't care what you do like and I don't like when people are like oh, yeah, I hate that yeah yeah, that that like that, that thing of like oh, is this, is this okay?
Speaker 1:and I'm like I do not care what you do at all, but yeah, um yeah. So the social situations are seems like you've got that kind of. You've navigated those well. And how do you respond to the trope about trading one addiction for another, like some people? Oh well, you were an addict, and with substances, and now you're an addict with running.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:How do you respond to that?
Speaker 2:yeah. How do you respond to that? Yeah, I think it's you're like, I own it. Yeah, like I. Yeah, I am, and I that's something that I'm like. I changed a bad addiction for a good addiction. It's like you know, you could say addictions aren't, you know, good for people, but I think really I chose a positive one and it hasn't hurt anybody this far, like yeah, and if it has like I'm sorry that I'm running yeah, exactly, that's a good way to put it is it hasn't hurt anyone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I, when people have said that, um to me, like a lot of people, you're obsessed with running and you're just running so much and I was like I don't it. It's hard to wake up and go run. It's not hard to go to a bar and drink, like that's easy to feel better, whereas like, if I do something hard to feel better, it doesn't feel like the same kind of addiction.
Speaker 2:I think that's just a lot of projection from like insecurity and like I've been there too, I've done the exact same thing. I've talked shit to sober people all my life.
Speaker 2:But, like, once you start going against the grain a little bit, that's when you start to get those people that are just insecure and going through it and it's like I'm okay with that, because I I don't respond to it the way I probably would have if I was still insecure, but like now I'm like I'm gonna live my life we all have our own lives and like I'm choosing this path yeah whatever, it's not that big of a deal yeah, it's, it's just a.
Speaker 1:It's a I've realized as I've gotten older. It's like people, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks. I I've really, really started to embody it where I'm like, oh, actually nobody cares nobody does.
Speaker 2:Everybody's always cared about.
Speaker 1:They all care about themselves and the only people who do care, like I. I have a thing where I obsessively check my what people say about me online on reddit, because people love to talk shit and I like it's like a snark thing, a snark blog, and I will look at what people say and they're like they've said exactly she just traded one addiction for another, whatever, and I just like it's like just refueling the fire for me to just keep doing what I'm doing. Like if this is, if this is causing someone to have this kind of a visceral response, uh, I must be doing something right, because I feel like it's like if that's heating somebody up, then like I'm just gonna keep doing, doing it, and it's. It's just it's changed over the years, because I think I used to let people get under my skin, but but anyway, yeah, so that was, that was a side note, but I I think that it's just important for us to just be on our paths.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I feel like there was something I wanted to ask you more about that. Let me just check my notes really quickly. Um, so where, when you got into, you started running ultras like on your own, not just speed, probably like the 50ks, the hundred miler that you dnf'd.
Speaker 1:What was the hundred miler like? If you don't mind telling that story, yeah um.
Speaker 2:So after chamonix, um, I was around, uh, so we we ran chamonix to marseille. Marseille was a dump. We went back to chamonix because utmb was going on that around that time, yeah, and so I was like this is perfect, let's hang around.
Speaker 2:Utmb um, we me and my friend keith met up with and tyler tyler, my friend, uh, my friend tyler was shooting uh this thing for cadence on max jolliffe and he was running um tds, which is the utmb race, um, and so we were around and I was like let's just go to that. And so I got this like fire lit inside me from max running like utmb. He ended up being, I think, the fourth american um out there and like kicked ass and it lit like a fire in me and and I could say it lit a fire in keith too. And I think we we got back just so like energized, we're like, oh fuck, this is so cool.
Speaker 2:Like utmb was just like something my brain was never like I don't know, I was never put around at all, like it wasn't like any sort of marathon, it was a different level of this cool factor. Um, so after I got back I was like fuck, I need to chase my next high and I had run a 50 miler this past um, summer, the bpn 50 miler, and that went well and um, so I was like, all right, I don't want to do the kilometer thing.
Speaker 1:So let's just jump from 50 mile to 100 yeah, yeah, because people hear 50k and they don't know it's 31 miles. So then yeah.
Speaker 2:So then 50 miler people know, and then 100 miler people know yeah, and so I was like all right, let's try this Satisfying and microverse seizure Throw in this cool ass event. Let's do it. So we signed up.
Speaker 2:Where was this? This was in Prescott, arizona, okay, and so I got my boy, arturo, from Chicago, to come up and he met me and Keith and we went out there and we all had a terrible race and it was honestly comical. It was a very hot day for October. I guess it was like a record for Arizona heat for like October it was scorching, um. But I think it was like I had some issues with, uh, my testicle again and I felt like a very strong feeling, like I was feeling during my accident. So I got very nervous because I don't have health insurance and I don't really I want to have kids. So I'm like yeah, I don't.
Speaker 2:I don't know what this means, uh. And so to me, I got to a point where I was like, all right, I'm not gonna keep pushing this based off ego, I'm just gonna remove myself and I'm I'm gonna finish 100 mile or one day like today is not gonna to happen. It's not going to happen. So I ended up DNFing at like mile 32.
Speaker 1:And then my buddy, arturo, Still 32 miles, so still 50 kilometers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I guess I ran all show that day.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But Arturo had. Arturo and Keith both got heat stroke and there was a bunch of people that were getting like super, super sick. It was so hot out and like the aid stations were there was a bunch of people that were getting like super, super sick because it was so hot out, um, and like the aid stations were, there was a ton yeah it was. It was a bunch of stuff.
Speaker 1:So, um, the stars didn't align like it wasn't it wasn't my day and that's cool.
Speaker 2:Like I'm okay with it. I think as soon as you know it was, it sucked. I was around a bunch of people that were, uh, who I looked up to a lot and I wasn't able to like perform how I wanted to perform in front of these people and um, but then again, like who? Again, who?
Speaker 1:cares.
Speaker 2:And, like I'm always, I can run a hundred miles. I could run like a hundred miles whenever I want, and it's it wasn't about the race. It wasn't real. Now that I'm looking back at it. It's not about the race, it's not about any of it. It's like I just want to get 100 miles, to be like I ran 100 miles.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's yeah, it's not about any of getting into any sort of race.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's the beauty of ultra, I think, is that it's kind of like you're not trying to qualify for something, you're just doing it just for yourself. And when you feel like people are waiting for you to do something epic, that's also like extra pressure that you don't need and it should just be something that's coming from yourself. But I've found with ultra, like it's so much more about you know, it's like the conditions. Everything has to be kind of okay Because, like the running itself is just going to be horrible, it's going to be so long and hard. But so if something is off, like it's hot, or you don't feel good from the start or you've got some kind of pain, it's going to just get progressively exponentially worse and you have to call it when you know you're not going to be able to keep going. But but yeah, and I think also like your why has to be so extremely strong too. And yeah, like when you do these ultra events, what is your why?
Speaker 2:um, definitely my why has to do with my best friend that died. Um, it's a place of really big factor into it. But also, like I don't know, I think my why is I was truly a piece of shit person, uh, like in my early adult years, and like I think I'm really just trying to change the whole narrative for myself and like I want to prove to me, and only me, that I I know I could be a better person and I was raised better than this um, and so I that plays a big factor into it. Like I don't know, I just want to be healthy and I want to be able to have a family one day, and it's that's something that I always think about.
Speaker 2:Um, so it's almost like you're correcting my past in a way like that's kind of what it is yeah, correcting your past, yeah, it sounds.
Speaker 1:It sounds like it's a combination of correcting your past and then also running towards a future that you want, and so that's. That's definitely very admirable. Um, uh, and I relate a lot, cause I think, I think, if you do have a lot of darkness in your past, it's like getting it out of your system with running and there's such a like correlation to like childhood trauma or just trauma and ultra running yeah it's yeah, it goes hand in hand.
Speaker 2:I think there's a lot of like demons that you face on those trails and like yeah you experienced a lifetime in a day. From what I've been told and I've experienced it like the furthest I've ran technically is the 50 miler, but I've, I've cried, I cried. The entire majority of that race was just like emotions and emotions, emotions, and it's like that's what I'm chasing.
Speaker 2:I'm chasing this like trip that I get through, like ultra running, and it's I feel that that's why I think I'm addicted to it, because it's like this it's very similar to a drug, almost.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's also like a cleansing experience, um, by doing something challenging and hard, like I've found in my daily life.
Speaker 1:If I'm off and I'm just like, because I think my, my resting personality is actually kind of that of an addict, of just like irritated and like, uh, I get really short fused and like I mean have my dad was Polish and he had like a very strong Polish temper and I definitely have that when I don't exercise, and so like I go sweat and like get those things out and like purge the demons, and then I can kind of face the world and be like nice or like kind of nice, and I think that that's like that's what keeps me an OK person.
Speaker 1:And then also like the chain reaction of making the positive decisions of like OK, like I'm not going to make, like I might wake up and be like I just want to drink today and like fuck those people or whatever, but then, like when I do something hard, I'm like OK, I feel a little bit better and I'm not going to like rage out anymore, but and it does make me feel less remorseful or grieving over who I used to be, which I sounds like you relate to, but anyway, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I think that that's running can be very healing. What are you working towards now? Like, how does running training look like in your daily life right now? And like, what are you working towards?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know what my next race is going to be. I haven't haven't figured that out yet. That's something that's been on my head a lot, but I don't know. I've just been running just staying running. Yeah, I've like kind of just gotten back into just like falling in love with running again. And so I try to hit around like 40 to 50, 60 miles a week and just no less than 10 um no less than 10 on a single run yeah, that's kind of what I've been.
Speaker 2:This week was a little bit different, but that's kind of like my standard. I just want to get like a good 10 mile run and I think that's when I feel 10 is like that elusive perfect amount yeah but it's also like hard because like I did 10 miles a day for three years.
Speaker 1:It was kind of a thing. I'd made a like a video about it on YouTube and that got me into running. But then I now I haven't been doing that and like I still exercise in other ways, but like I'll go do 10 miles and be like, damn, 10 miles is far like it's not, it's not easy.
Speaker 2:So if you're doing it, like, definitely not easy here in Austin yeah. Austin's a lot smaller, yeah, well, it's also just a lot smaller than that's like two loops of town lake trail, yeah, and it's just like, oh, it's, yeah. So that's kind of like my sweet spot and I'm gonna just continue running and, um, I think once I do have a race that I'll obviously pick up. You know, I want to try to get some more elevation and that's something that I, my little brain, cannot comprehend it's like black.
Speaker 2:Chicago. So, um, yeah, I don't really have anything yet, but there will be something early next year that I'm looking for Cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's awesome. Um, yeah, I have to get something on the books too. I haven't really raised a lot recently. I did solo things but like, like back in during the pandemic that I kind of like like just putting on a spontaneous ultra on the track or something, yeah, but yeah, so how can people find you like on social media if they want to reach out? Or, you know, on Instagram TikTok?
Speaker 2:Yeah, my Instagram and TikTok are both Nolan, with three N's and a J at the end. Cool yeah, hit me up, let's get a run in or something, yeah totally Great.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you so much for coming on to the show and thank you, guys, for watching the Lucy Beatrix podcast brought to you by the Museum of Distance Running. Museum of Distance Running, also known as Motor, is an apparel brand that caters towards the creative class of runners, and if you use the offer code Lucy10, l-u-c-i-e 10, you can get 10% off your next order, and we're having a drop of our fall winter collection in a few weeks, so stay tuned for that.
Speaker 1:Go get it. Yeah, it's going to be awesome Hoodies, long sleeves. Anyway, thank you so much. You can find me on Instagram. I'm Lucy Beatrix B-E-A-T-R-I-X. And until next time, just be fast, just win.